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I make lots of angry phone calls, because I was tortured in a troubled teen facility which is still open.
My family has thoroughly rejected me, because I can be angry and reactive. It is hard not to be angry and reactive, because the torture changed the way that my body reacts to stress, and part of why I am so goddamned angry is that no one intervened.
There are sights, smells, sounds, thoughts, that put me on edge. I am normally an articulate person I think - normally calm. There’s a lot that I can handle. I can deal with a lot of difficult and sensitive issues.
But it’s those triggers. Part of it is that I choose to fight, that I call state agencies, that I call law makers, when I could just try to let the trauma “heal.” But there will still always be triggers I couldn’t avoid, even if I gave up fighting.
“Trauma brain” is difficult for people to understand. It is difficult to advocate and take care of myself when encountering a specific thing makes it impossible for me to sleep for weeks. It is my responsibility to try to treat my trauma - but at the same time, it makes it much harder to get the resources to access that kind of treatment. The biggest triggers are also directly related to mental healthcare, which makes it extremely difficult to make progress with providers. Something that “looks like” the kind of office I was sitting in as a teenager is not a place I will ever feel comfortable.
My dad basically told me I should take meds and read Viktor Frankl, and then cut me off from my family. The problem of being traumatized is that it makes you too hard to support, which means that you end up trapped in a worse and worse situation. You lose all support, and get further traumatized.
I was desperate enough to go inpatient after the election, and was physically assaulted. I don’t know where I am supposed to make my trauma better. Where I get help such that driving down a certain street doesn’t instantly wrench my body into flight or fight mode.
That’s a double-edged sword. Some people with trauma see this as a pass to do whatever and lash out at people etc., which is not great.
As one good saying went, “It’s not your fault, but sadly it is your responsibility”. Support? Great. Some more understanding? Yes! But carte blanche for everything? No.
Nothing in the original post says anything about giving traumatized people a pass for lashing out.
They simply showed the other side of the coin.
Sure, people lash out. Cool. Don’t give them a pass. Again, nothing in the post said you had to give them a pass for lashing out because you understand that their trauma caused them to lash out. Where are you getting that the post even remotely suggests this? What part of the post is this the other side of the coin?
The part that’s bothering people is the “traumatized people can’t be responsible for other people’s comfort.” It sounds too much like “I’m sorry if my reaction made you uncomfortable, but I have trauma and so I’m not responsible.”
If this was what was commented, I’d have a different argument and tone. But they were explicit in mentioning lashing out.
We can discuss your statement, but I didn’t want to muddy my response with it.
I mean, the point of therapy is to work through your trauma in a way that allows you to avoid maladaptive behaviors, which might include being overly sensitive in situations where it isn’t appropriate and doesn’t help you. We can make some changes to accommodate the bad things that have happened to people, but having trauma doesn’t give you license to go around the world inflicting your emotions on everyone around you. Your mental illness is not your fault, but it is your responsibility, and all that.
“There nothing wrong with being triggered but you need to work on not being a loaded gun.” Was a really nice way I heard a counselor respond to a woman who was making the same point as oop
Sure yes, but what the fuck else am I supposed to do? It sucks but you still have to remain functional, because we don’t live in the utopia where the numbers that provide food and shelter give a damn that your mum hit you too much.
I mean, I feel like I’m making pretty great progress at this “lie down and die” thing. feels like I finally found the thing I was born to do
No
Just don’t be shitty to people.
Being damaged is not an excuse.
This is not mutually exclusive with the statement, from my perspective. Many have trauma responses that do not involve being shitty to others but may involve shutting down, self-isolating, etc. that are still maladaptive and unhelpful, without necessarily being hurtful to others.
Why would anyone be whining if you cope in ways that aren’t harmful to others?
It’s not whining, but maybe being concerned about someone you love, care about or just having empathy with someone hurting themselves.
Why would people be *complaining about how they vent if it’s healthy?
This post is either trying to excuse inexcusable behavor, or making up a senario where people are shamed for healthy habits.
There can be behaviour that is not inexcusable or shitty, but is viewed by some people as too sensitive, too emotional, too weak. People are sometimes shamed for healthy reactions like crying or just not being cheerful.
Sounds like a lot of contortions to be upset about text on a screen
Did I miss something? I think the post is about being upset in real life.
this smells like white women
I always think of this line from the Talking Heads which seem to be appropriate for these times.
“ Patience is a virtue, but I don’t have the time”.
I’ve seen this more in the last decade or so, someone experiences a moderate amount of distress and then expects to get a free pass on any kind of toxic behavior that they can link to it. I’m assuming some types of counselors are promoting this as a twisted “hurt people hurt people” sort of thing and I’ve helped these sorts of folks until the compassion fatigue really sets in and I realize it’s dragging me down, having real negative effects on my own well being.
So, lately out of self preservation I’m immediately suspicious of people who put their own trauma first in the interpersonal realm, like it’s the first thing you know about them. I’m not sure there are healthy environments where everyone enthusastically shares their trauma and uses it to bond over, although I feel like that concept has been promoted in some trendy pop psych circles. Heck, I see a sign on a church near me that they have a weekly “grief share” session. Sounds horrible and like a speedrun to burnout.
Am I out of line in my thinking about this? Generally I value community building and being compassionate but that sort of thing really has been getting my goat lately.
I think many behaviors are being conflated here: externalizing behavior vs internalizing behavior. People may react to the post with a notable experience from one of those.
E.g., if someone was recently chewed out by a Chad or Karen because some unknown events activated their externalizing survival strategies, it’s more difficult to feel compassion for them – and easier to dislike the post. OTOH, there can be people who self isolate and withhold their preferences to avoid activating events, because they tend to internalize negative emotions.
I don’t think the post is encouraging us to enable bad behavior, but reflect on others’ experiences. I can feel compassion for people in my life who have been hurtful to me, but simultaneously not want to interact with them to protect myself.
I think there are two ways of reading the claim that a traumatized person can’t be responsible for other peoples’ comfort. The first is reasonable: nobody is really responsible for anyone else’s comfort. We have to take care of ourselves at the end of the day, so mentally healthy people especially shouldn’t rely on traumatized people to make them comfortable.
The second is unreasonable: traumatized people, more than anyone, have no obligation to do the basic things that make other people comfortable, in virtue of their trauma.
I think the post just makes it sound a little too much like the second interpretation, because otherwise why focus on traumatized people in the first place? I think that’s what’s getting under most peoples’ skin.
I’m still trying to get a hold of my feelings about it but I think it’s more that some people treat their own trauma as a kind of privilege, like it excuses how they might treat others. I’ve had enough experiences with friends, coworkers and customers being careless or hurtful and imo it’s an uncomfortable truth that traumatized people can be harmful if they haven’t learned effective coping strategies for their own trauma.
I hate engaging in that kind of social triage though and there are a large, increasing number of traumatized people in the world, and it’s hard to access the kind of care that would help someone move past maladaptive behaviors that harm others as the result of their trauma.
For myself, at the moment, I will be maintaining boundaries and trying to avoid traumatized people in general, so as to not become more traumatized myself. This is the opposite of how I’ve previously engaged with people too, I’m consciously trying another strategy. Also apologies for being vague but I think it applies to a lot of situations.
Read other comments… almost each and every one is a fucking moron. You know of a society with structures in place to help people gracefully recover from the kind of suffering that really twists psychological structure the hell out of any notion of “normal”?
Because I do not. So much so that so far I have not met a single psychiatrist whose competence I can trust (they must be out there somewhere, but I for one has failed to locate even one), let alone a network aimed at getting people out of traumatic experiences.
I’m really surprised at the negativity. To me, this meme reads as “don’t blame someone for emotional dysregulation/panic etc” not “allow people to horribly mistreat others”.
You don’t have to be normal, just don’t cause problems for others.
Lol. You realize this is not possible?
What a horrible thing to say and such a low-effort, disrespectful way to say it. Absolutely you can work to at least lower the severity of issues. Yes, some people will still find fault but that’s on them and if you choose to be a shitty person because “they’ll just get mad anyway”, or whatever other excuse you may find, that’s still on you.
In what way is it impossible to not cause problems?
Exactly how you described: whatever my action, it will become a problem for someone at some point of time. I can control my intent, I can choose to minimise negative impact for arbitrary receivers and time scale, but there is no such thing as not causing problems, unless we choose the “problems is only attitude, so no such thing as problems at all” standpoint
Is there any way we can nail down your point a little better? It feels a little scattered.
You start by saying that [nearly] everyone in the thread is wrong while talking about society as a whole can’t “fix” people with trauma. And then go after psychatrists for some reason, I guess because that would be society fixing them? All the OP said was that people with a lot of trauma can’t be responsible for helping other people pretend that everything is fine. I’m not sure I’m confident enough that I can see the link you’re trying to make.
And then the way you’re going about saying that not being able to avoid conflict entirely is impossible makes it sound like you’re against even trying? And bud, my patience is also in the pits but I still try to do something, if not for other people’s sake then at least for my own.
As someone who has been angry and bitter, and who is constantly “wrong” in the eyes of general, neurotypical society I think I understand where you’re coming from to a degree but I’m missing specifics enough to flesh out this conversation.
Thank you for asking:)
I came when there were like nine or so comments, most going like this: “oh, so you are for assholes hiding them being assholes behind their past trauma? What a shitty take”. Hence my first comment, which in a boring language would have been this: spending a lot of time in a state where one cannot be comfortable for other people is damn expected, because there is virtually no network in place to help them recover. Good psychiatrists could be at least some means for that end, but alas, even they are scarce.
As for the conflict - yes, only a fool can think it can always be avoided. So it is better to accept that you will be conflicting with others and look for better and more sensible ways to act.
Now, after two denials (no, don’t you dare to label everyone as just an asshole justifying their actions by their past and no, trying to not cause problems is not going to land you or anyone near you in any good spot), I feel like also sharing something that is actually what I am for: with all this causing/not causing problems bullshit dropped, only one questions remains: if this is the last thing I will ever do, am I still willing to do it? This is how I choose my actions
“Being shitty and lashing out is just who I am”
Thanks for pretending I said something I actually did not. Good luck and fuck yourself
You’re welcome for saying the part you refused to say.
You’re responsible for your actions.
Not being sensitive and hide it, to protect those other people from the slightest bit of discomfort for them.
Big “i have it worse than anyone else” energy
Nah, but it should go both ways, not only broken people hiding anything that could be slightly inconveniencing.
No one gets a free pass for anything (lots of comments talking about that, maybe here in France it’s different? I see nobody getting any special freepass for any kind of problem here, more the opposite).
Exactly. Too many people see hurt people as burdens and they lack even the slightest bit of empathy to be kind to them. It’s such a “push the problem over there” mentality that makes zero sense under any scrutiny. And even for them, since they’ve pushed it so hard, you can see them struggling and not enjoying themselves.
And then they have the fucking gall to claim that neurodivergent people don’t know how to communicate.
The lack of self awareness here is almost amazing
How so? Would you care to elaborate or are you just trying to blow me off and not deal with how my comment makes you feel about yourself?
Being traumatized is a perfectly valid excuse to act shitty. We are social animals, and being somebody else’s problem is half our job.
