Switch to Linux and spend way more time making sure everything is updated and having to jump through hoops installing things.
“Okay, I switched to Linux, now I’m getting this error message: _______.”
“Install ______.”
“It gives me this error now: ______.”
“You have to update the _____ library first.”
“It won’t let me.”
“You have to use sudo.”
“It tells me to clone the git via the command line, but git says verifying login from command line isn’t supported any more.”
“You’re following seven year old instructions.”
“They’re the only instructions I can find.”
“You should switch to this other flavor of Linux.”
I remember I had a date with a girl back in the’10s. We hit it off and got back to her place. Wanted to show her a funny Internet video.
She brought out an ancient laptop that refused to boot and said her Ex had tried to fix it with Linux.
I got it pointed at the right dependencies, she fellated me as it updated.
I think this is my only sexy story that includes Linux.
Well, I guess there was this one time I loaned a lonely neighbor DOS 6 disks.
But, that does not include Linux.
My suspicion is it’s not just your sexy Linux story but the only sexy Linux story.
I mean we all know that recompiling the kernel is practically a replacement for sex
Never been to PenguiCon, I guess.
Is that the furry Linux con?
This is the best blowjob story I’ve read yet lol
Switch to Linux! Then you can have problems with Linux.
About the same when you ask for a good GUI replacement for X and someone replies “just use the command line”, like cheers for that men, not what I’m asking for.
The ones that make me laugh uncontrollably are those Windows disk encryption issues for which the solution is…wait for it… run Linux from a LiveISO, fix the disk with Linux, then reinstall Windows. Because Windows is incapable of fixing its own issues that it itself caused.
As a former computer service technician, we used Ubuntu Live USB and DVDs (yes it was a long ago) a lot.
I remember something happened to my family’s Windows computer once. A system file had gotten corrupted somehow so it could only boot into the repair utility, which, naturally, couldn’t repair the file.
The solution I found on Google was to put in the installation disc (I think it was Windows 7?), run the disc at startup (by switching the boot order in the BIOS), and fix it using Command Prompt on the disc.
Windows’ own diagnostic tool included with the OS couldn’t fix the problem. Only the disc could. It was pretty fortunate we still had that thing. Until then, it had just been sitting there collecting dust.
Windows lacking tooling to fix issues caused by its own malfeasance was what made my switch to Linux permanent. I used a LiveCD to fix file system issues that Windows had no tools for unless I wanted to pay thousands for janky third-party tools. Once I did that and recovered most of my lost data, I thought long and hard and just said “fuck it, I’ll use Linux”.
None of my family will run Linux, however, on my recommendation. I can cope with Linux’s … selective set of user friends. They can’t, and I’ll be damned if I turn into free tech support.
No, you don’t say “switch to Linux”. This is an opportunity to be free from the shackles of being the go-to IT support person! If they say they are having computer problems, ask “Is it Linux? No? Sorry, can’t help you”
“Let me Bing that for you”
I’ve Binged It On and gotten bonked.
From my experience you wind up just hitting up YouTube or stack exchange or something similar for a tutorial on how to do something that could work out the box on a Windows machine
50% of the time the Microsoft forum help solution for any Windows problem is “Have you tried Re-installing Windows?”
- source, my ass
I used to always tell people I use Linux to avoid doing tech support. It was working pretty well for a few years, now my friend just asked me to install it for him. I guess I played myself.
A non-technical end-user once had a problem with Windows. A technical friend said “SWITCH TO LINUX”. Now they have thousands of problems.
I’ve been a non-stop user of Linux as my primary OS since before Ubuntu was a thing. I do not recommend Linux systems to my non-technical friends.
My Aunt bought a new laptop to run her eBay/Facebook selling business on. She’s not particularly techy but has used Windows machines for admin work for prob 20 years or so. Laptop had no office apps installed and she tracks everything in a spreadsheet. Original plan was to install Libreoffice but it was running some budget version of Windows 10 you can’t install anything on, can’t remember what it’s called. So I installed Fedora. Chromium and Libreoffice Calc open on login, her ancient HP printer works, she’s able to access her camera as USB mass storage when she lists items and unattended upgrades are enabled. That was 2 years ago, no problems since.
Cool story, bro. And for every such cool story you can bring up I can bring you a hundred, probably, of people who got set up on Linux and returned to Windows because it was a horror show from their perspective.
Let me give you the clue: “The Year of the Linux Desktop” has been declared with monotonous regularity since the 1990s. It still hasn’t arrived. There’s a reason for this, and the quicker Linux (and other F/OSS) advocates grasp why this is, the quicker will the year actually arrive.
Until then, Linux is a fringe OS for techies. (And there it excels. As I said, I’ve been a non-stop user of it for ages.)
I totally agree that can happen. My first experience with Linux was installing Slackware from a CD I got with a magazine at 16. Install worked but I couldn’t really do much with it with no internet connection so abandoned it. Also I hosed the Windows partition when trying to set up dual boot so got banned from the family PC for a while.
Mind clarifying?
All you have to do is turn that off and you can install anything you want. You took a simple problem and made it hard.
It sounds like they’re talking about the N versions of Windows, which can only install apps through the Microsoft Store. That can be disabled, but my understanding is it’s a pain to get it done. It’s meant to be locked down kind of like Apple products.
It’s S mode and it’s just a couple buttons.
I don’t know how this solution should be hard. I always have a live boot usb(O.K. not Fedora) with me and installing these apps is about 1-2 commands and I really don’t like scrolling through legacy Gui apps.
Windows S can be turned off, but it does require an internet connection.
I installed Linux to my tech illiterate parents. They are doing fine. No issues in years.
They probably stopped asking you for help and just used their phones.
My dad thought the XFCE-Materia-Theme is the occasional Windows redesign until i told him.
And last month he wanted his antivirus back, even though i explained it already. But he’s good at other things.
I love XFCE because of its retro 90s Win98 look!
I mean, that’s what themes are for. Just adapt it to your liking.
There is fine line with being tech illiterate and being able to use linux when it all just works. The problems arise only when you are just slightly more advanced and want to do something weird without actually being able do it in linux with some things being a bit too much for the average Joe.
The only thing people like my parents need is a functioning browser. I bet %95 of all Windows/Mac users are similar.
Yeah that is not true. Microsoft Office is one super commonly used thing, and that doesn’t work on Linux.
And before you say, yes there are alternatives to Office. The point is most people definitely need more than a web browser.
Yeah correction, people think Chromium is enough until it’s not
Microsoft Office works in the browser.
It’s shit, I’ve tried it, so many features missing.
I tried to install I think Ubuntu for my parents. I failed to find a way to properly allow short/simple passwords after like 2 hours of fiddling with configs. Gave up on it after that.
You shouldn’t be allowing that to be honest. You also shouldn’t be using Ubuntu especially for new users.
Well, its between allowing that and not using Linux at all so that is that. If I could get them to remeber a strong password, it would not be for PC login.
What distro would you recommend? I was under the impression Ubuntu was furthest with UIs.
I’ve found that OpenSuse Tumbleweed is better than both Ubuntu and Linux Mint.
They set out to make a distro that is kept up to date perpetually instead of managing different versions.
Ubuntu has turned to garbage in recent years because of canonical. It also looks more like mac than Windows.
Try Linux Mint.
Hmmm, I had mint for a little bit once. I don’t remember having any issues with it which probably means it is good. Paradoxically it also made me forget about it somewhat.
But I really have an urge to try NixOS for myself… And I don’t really want to mess with my parents setup now.
Yeah I can understand not wanting to mess with something that works
I don’t know if something changed but you can use even 4 digits now.
I would recomment Mint to users who use their Computer for more than just Webbrowsing. If its just webbrowsing and you know Linux, try setting up Fedora silverblue. In my vm’s two digit passwords work.
i gave ubuntu to my 67 yo grandmother and she used it until she died.
i call UBERBullshit on this
You gave Ubuntu to your grandmother and she fucking died?
OMG, Linux kills grandmothers!(I know, I quit Windows around 95, it’s just that I couldn’t resist)
Have you tried turning it off and back on?
I don’t because I don’t wanna be that guy.
But in general these days, I’d absolutely recommend it. Anything in the debian family is just as easy to use as windows. As long as you hook them up with some good cron jobs for auto updates and rollbacks on failures and stuff, they’ll be right as rain.
To be clear, I wouldn’t have in like 2015.
As long as the distro is stable anyone can use it to use a browser and browse the internet. I had put Ubuntu Linux for my mom on a laptop, back in 2010, she was using just the browser. She had it for 2 years, no problems. She did nothing else with that laptop though, because that was the first time she was using a computer. She was mostly facebooking.
Exactly. My parents have been using Linux for years, they have no technical expertise, and most of the time they don’t need it. For the average user, I find linux more stable than windows.
ngl, the “switch to linux” crowd is close to a vibe of complaining that “my car is making some weird sounds” and the response is to “buy a new car!” I mean, it would solve the problem of not having that issue with windows/your car, but it also means you have to intrusively replace your workflow and probably find some entirely new programs to do what you already could, and potentially have many new, less explicable problems, just to not have that one tiny problem that you could live around.
Often it’s worse. It like telling people to move to a different country because the roads are better there.
“My ISP, the only ISP available where I live, is terrible and unreliable.”
“You should move.”
That’s the “switch to Linux” energy in a nutshell.
As a petrol head, that is a very convincing argument to move.
Yeah nah I think of it kinda like the whole custom ROMs thing for Android. Most people could care less until performance drops to the degree that they have to switch over
Car is making some weird sounds -> you slipped a bearing, your head gasket is blown, or something else catastrophic, because you bought a Ford/Kia/etc. -> buy a new car
Ehh
More like someone saying
“Then change the station”
When someone complains
“I don’t like the ads on this radio station that I listen to in my car on the drive home”
There’s no financial loss by doing so, it’s relatively easy, just have to find out which frequency another broadcast you like is playing on
But the other radio doesn’t play the vital radio show you need for work.
Yes but I don’t want to listen to country.
You know, I can’t remember the last time that changing the station on my radio required me to sift through thousands of subtly out of date web pages to find clues as to why I just can’t hear that one guitar riff.
yeah not even close, linux is free.
depends how much you value your time. if you’ve nothing to do or just like fucking about with your os in your spare time then sure, linux is free. if you’re, say, a freelance graphic designer and actively losing money whilst trying to learn the foibles of a new os, and just fixing the bullshit that win & mac do by default; then it’s decidedly not
i think you only say that because you dont know how to use it, its actually easy when you know how to get around and saves you a lot of time compared to other OS :)
my dude, i haven’t booted into windows in ages. but that proves my exact point: it might save one time if ones workflow involves a lot of tasks that can be scripted. if ones workflow is “launch photoshop; browse the web for inspiration; draw for a bit; close photoshop.”, it won’t save any time. especially due to the hassle of getting photoshop working, or learning a new app like gimp or krita.
launch photoshop; browse the web for inspiration; draw for a bit; close photoshop
hAvE yOu tRiEd GiMp?
- average Linux fanboy. Thank you for not being one of those!
Oh man, that reminds me of the one time I promised a friend to make a poster for an event and my windows lappy died the next day. I had to shoehorn the project into gimp on my tiny netbook.
It was painful. I’m glad for knowing how to use gimp in a pinch, and it is quite powerful software, but it felt like every tool and setting was in the wrong place after working with PS for so long.
Also, it goes without saying that designing a full sized poster on a 10" screen is a fools errand.
to be fair, i actually prefer gimp. but i recognise that different things work for different people, and often it’s not worth learning new software unless it brings significant advantages
“I prefer xxx” won’t work in corporate environments though, that’s the problem.
You are stuck on a very specific minor use case.
I also love that humans are born with Photoshop knowledge but they have to learn Krita. xD
Dude, if this is about the windows tablets, newsflash, they suck.
it, er, isn’t, i’ve never used one so can’t comment, and also i don’t understand how you got that impression?
Linux is free if you don’t value your time.
To be fair Windows often loves to throw rocks under your feet.
Oh my god so original and edgy!
Linux is free, if you can be bothered learning how to drive again. It’s like driving a manual when everyone else has an auto
Well… I jokingly told my friend to switch to Linux - that guy switched and I can attest to it that he is much happier now 😁
I love Linux, but it’s my job. When I go home I just want the simplicity of Windows. Thanks to tons of useless certifications it does exactly what I tell it to do.
When family wants a new OS install I don’t suggest Linux or even mention it’s existence. They get a version of Windows 10 with the bloat ripped out and the inability to upgrade to Windows 11. 90% of tech support calls have been stopped.
What friends I have attempted to convert usually go back to Windows due to Nvidia driver issues but as we move forward and gaming becomes less of a hurdle maybe we’ll see more converts. Especially if Windows keeps pushing their whole cloud OS thing.
I don’t do tech support but I can’t relate at all.
Windows is consistently the lowest quality software I interact with and Linux (Fedora) works out to be more reliable, simple, and often better featured.
Transition costs are massive though. Just like implementing any significant change in anyone’s life, it’s impossible for a technically illiterate person to change to linux.
Well but that is mostly because windows is installed on evrything. If there was linux pre installed it would not require a lot of technical understanding for basic usage (depending on the distro).
Exactly, I’m not saying it’s a good or bad thing the general public only knows of two flavours but Linux doesn’t even cross their minds.
Also, you vastly overestimate the technical skills and the want thereof of the general public. I can assure you people struggle even with Windows like you wouldn’t believe, where opening a terminal window breaks their collective minds.
ChromeOS, tablets and certain smartphones have the ability to replace laptops, all running a variation on the linux kernel, but that’s the closest we’re ever going to get to mainstream Linux.
I dont think I overestimate peoples technical skills. Just a week ago I had to explain to my university lecturer how to mirror screens and the concept of having multiple screens was just as new as using them for the same thing at once. Thing is that the design for a lot of functions is the same in linux and windows. Some examples: Search menu, right click, desktop, files, drag and drop, task bar and its widgets and application shortcuts. Sure there are many differences too but I would argue that using some sort of app store is easier than finding an executable online. What I want to say is: For very basic usage like using a web browser or searching files you will have the same or very simila patterns between OSs.
Oh yeah I agree with everything you said. But unless laptops start shipping with a fully open-source Linux distro, you will never see a technically illiterate person use one.
The only significant change within OS distribution in the last 10 years was the rise of ChromeOS, and that’s only because of Google making sure they are dirt cheap and marketing the ever-loving shit out of them.
I agree with you but you also aren’t doing them favors. Windows is not a secure or reliable platform.
But it is, it’s very reliable. So long as users don’t install anything, and there’s a quality paid antivirus solution and windows 11 gets blocked then very little will affect these installs.
As for security? Who cares. They’re checking email and using Facebook. They’re not running critical software, and as for reliability… Let me tell ya from an admin standpoint Linux is far from reliable, there’s a very good reason companies pay money for support.
So long as users don’t install anything
Yeah, no shit sherlock, if you don’t use YOUR computer, it’s never going to break.
Trick is to try live off live USB mode, learn from old textbooks, pen and notepads and a phone with less than 1gb data, to record stuff. Now we call it hard mode, but really it’s “just the norms” haha
You get really crap at typing keywords and Google image search and really good at looking through indexes and table of contents for the right chapter.
What I meant in this case was spyware. My father in law no matter how much protection I put in place always manages to install SOMETHING. He’ll even override the antivirus telling him the app is suspicious. He only goes on stock sites and business crap and sees no ads. Its always a casino game or something stupid like that. No idea where it comes from
Hmm, in my experience it always comes with an ad somehow… Nowadays there are ads that seems legit things 😂
This guy tech supports
Got a 2060. Nvidia and EasyAntiCheat were the reasons I performed the ultimate act of heretical blasphemy in installing Windows on my computer
This, any old laptop with Windows xp, 7 or even ReactOS would do tbh, don’t want to raise the bar giving a teenager an expensive win11 “Optimus Prime” box
Okay, I’ll bite. I’ve been trying Linux every few years for the last few decades and it’s never been anywhere close to replacing Windows for me. I’m not a luddite; I was in tech for many years (MCSE certified) but there just… ALWAYS something that doesn’t work right. And there’s NEVER a simple fix. Linux for me ends up being more of a hobby than a tool and I haven’t had the time or patience to deal with it in the past.
But I’m willing to try again,
Anyone have any resources to get me pointed in the right direction? Which distro to try, how to install as a dual-boot on an exiting Windows machine without breaking it, how to get Steam/Nvidia drivers/games going, etc?
EDIT - Apparently trying to dual boot with Windows on a machine with two physical drives is too much to ask (unless you have a CS degree). Maybe next time, Linux.
Linux will only be the solution when it finally learns to adequately cater to a better class of idiots. Once Linux handles a fool as well as Windows, then we can talk.
Pretty much. I’d absolutely love to run an idiot proof distro. If one existed.
Mint is right there. Very foolproof as far as I’ve tested with family and friends.
It’s what I have installed on my parents computer. Somewhat painful to do any sort of development in it though.
It’s really not primed for development. I’d use Arch, Fedora, openSUSE or Debian for that.
Indeed. I’ve been on Arch for a few years, and it’s great 99% of the time.
But I really hate how sometimes you sit down to work and something broke and you have to tinker to figure out why instead of focusing on what you want to focus.
That’s the reason why I don’t main Arch. I’m already past the point where I have all the patience to tinker the conflicts away.
You’d think so, but like my experience with other distros people suggest as more stable has been even worse. I’ve never tried Debian, but I swear, next time this breaks down I’m going for that one and being happy with my packages from 1997.
Yeah right. I tried Linux Mint, and I had so many problems I had to switch to KDE Neon. Admittedly like half of them were related to Nvidia, but lots of people have Nvidia.
Even if I’m an outlier, I don’t think you understand what foolproof means. Maybe you set if up for them and they’ve never had to touch it, but most people don’t have that luxury, and also will probably need to touch it at some point.
Stuff KDE man, use xfce, only thing KDE would be good for is the telly
I’ve never used it with a Nvidia card, was speaking mostly about mine and my family’s experience. I don’t currently know the state of Nvidia support on Mint at this moment, whether with the proprietary or open source drivers, so can’t give you any info on that.
About being foolproof, it’s about being easy to use without having many footguns, not about being bug free.
But how is it easy to use? It’s easy to use once it’s set up I guess, as long as you don’t touch it. But again, most people will need to touch it I feel like, to install some software or something like that. Even if all you do is update every now and then, I have had updates that just completely break things, forcing me to roll back to a Timeshift snapshot, multiple times. I wouldn’t call that easy to use.
I mean, I guess if your family had no major problems, they had no major problems. I just can’t figure out how they would’ve managed that.
What Mint install did you have that had that many issues? Installing apps has been easy for a long time already, just open the app store and pick what you need. Updates is the same thing: app store > update. Whenever something breaks for some reason, there are auto-created rollbacks on the boot menu. My partner is far from being a techie and they managed every daily operation without needing help from my part.
I think we had vastly different experiences, probably because of hardware or release differences, but I never saw the kind of issues you’re commenting :/
Can I use Photoshop/lightroom and all the other software I need for work and play yet?
Can you use windows software on Mac or Android? It’s a different OS, tho wine and proton can make Photoshop and Lightroom work, it’s hit or miss tho. Most games work too save anti-cheat ones for some reason.
It wasn’t trying to be snarky, just genuinely asking because I’d love to switch to Linux and check in now and then but until I can safely work with heavy graphics processes on it reliably, I can’t switch. Main tools are DaVinci Resolve, Photoshop+LR, Blender, and Inkscape. For personal I make music with Bitwig (which has a Linux version I know that) and some other stuff, and I game on it now and then (drone simulator on Steam with a radio controller on usb, sometimes a bit of WoW), but these days I mostly game downstairs on the Xbox anyway.
Same here. I’ve been very interested in Linux for a long time but until creative/professional apps are available and reliable on Linux, it’ll be contained in a VM for now.
I can’t speak for Lightroom but Photoshop works through wine and Davinci resolve and blender is native on Linux. Source: I’m an artist using krita and blender on Linux. Also I use darktable as a substitute for Lightroom.
Edit: specifically Photoshop 2018, but i use krita since i already use it for digital painting anyway.
Yeah as you can maybe tell from the list, I’ve already been trying hard to go to alternative/open source replacements to most of Adobe’s lineup but PS+LR is the engine behind the day to day work and I couldn’t find something to truly replace it just yet. The new AI stuff they’re bringing into PS isn’t going to make it any easier to ditch lest you’ll be left behind the competition…
I’ll look at darktable, does it integrate well with PS? I need it to merge to HDR, and open as layers into PS.
It’s because anti-cheat is essentially a kernel level rootkit spying on your computer.
Gaming through Steam/Proton is easy and performant, but some games have invasive anti-cheat that won’t work on Linux, and some game companies turn Linux support purposely off.
Photoshop and Lightroom both probably work through Wine (or maybe even Proton), but it isn’t guaranteed. Best option is to work with alternatives. I switched from PS to Krita years ago and have been happier than ever with the switch.
There are many resources on Linux software that are alternatives (and often compatible with) windows-only software.
Doesn’t even have to be a “class of idiots”. It would be enough if stuff didn’t just sometimes break, seemingly randomly. (It’s not quite random, obviously.)
Recent example: I had OpenSuse TW recommended because of its reliability. First tip: install codecs, which requires adding the Packman repository. Now, simply updating threw up errors several times because Packman and the other repositories are apparently not in sync, and some dependencies would break if I updated. (Waiting a few days “fixed” it, but still shouldn’t happen.)
Depending on which update method you use (Yast/Discovery/zypper/update widget) you get different error messages, most of which are not informative. This is for an established distribution known for its reliability, and this alone would keep me from ever recommending it to normal users, even moderately tech-savvy ones.
Things are getting better, but I’m still shopping around for a distro that just works. Perhaps that new Fedora version, or one of the immutable ones, now that they are getting popular.
Ubuntu does this well with gnome shell, where it’s more like using a mobile device that a desktop. To be truly idiot proof you just need to prevent actually interesting software from being installed :D
