“People want to live where they know their neighbors don’t want to wipe them from the face of the earth. More at 11.”
The wealthy want us to fight a culture war to distract us from the class war we should be having.
.
In any war the only winner is the rich. If the rich lose, then it’s called a revolution instead.
It was the bourgeois that win in France, not the peasants.
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No, the Revolution got rid of the monarchy and neutered the clergy and nobility, but it was an urban revolution of the Parisian middle class, or bourgeoisie. The situation of the peasants changed little through the revolution, and it was persistent efforts of the bourgeoisie to impose Parisian culture on the countryside. It took until WW1 to construct a coherent French nation. Weber (not that Weber) showed that in Peasants into Frenchmen in the 70s.
And Napoleon had family connections in the Italian nobility. His uncle was a cardinal. His father was a lawyer and inherited a fair chunk of change. Napoleon was hardly any sort of peasant.
I think most revolutions just lead to a new ruling class that is just as bad as the old. It didn’t take Stalin long to become just as bad as the Czar. After fighting a war to stop taxation from Britain, one of the first things Washington did was put down a rebellion to enforce a federal tax on whiskey.
The thing is the American revolution wasn’t about taxation itself. The taxation without representation bit was more of a minor component over how society should be organized. The question was whether the inherited aristocratic titles or ownership of land(later means of production) determined your social power. There’s nothing about the ideology of the American revolution that is about the levying of taxes, it is about who gets to collect them.
With the soviets, the problems and successes are significantly more nuanced than “Stalin was bad dictator”(although that is a true statement). Which on one hand makes a lot of western criticism of the USSR questionably true, but also makes the actual issues(which there were) harder to address because they happened not because of one guy being bad.
Taxation was the main reason for the war. Britain had levied some new taxes to recoup the cost of the French and Indian war. It put a significant strain on the economy.
Kinda chilling in that format tbh
The rich waged wars on democracy since the beginning of European colonization in North America. They’ve been winning steadily, with few losses since the beginning of money in society.
Democracy is good for the oligarchs. Trump is a populist. The oligarchs definitely don’t like him. Even the Koch family is against him.
You’re being down voted, but you’re correct.
So do the russians and chinese.
Yes. The rich control both of them
When one group became openly hostile to multiple populations of people based on things like race and sexuality, it’s no longer ‘voting with your feet’, it becomes ‘go somewhere they’re not gonna shoot my son’
Yeah this article was interesting, but absolutely drenched in both-sides-ism. “I wanna be able to fly a thin blue line flag” doesn’t compare with “I’m LGBTQ and fleeing for my life.”
Thin blue line flags and safe places for trans people can not coexist.
This is a good thing. The only way the red states will change is by getting worse and worse. They will have no doctors, teachers, nurses, lawyers, or corporations that will purposefully live or do their work there if they can help it. If you are a woman, a person of color, a migrant, an LGBTQ person, a child, or anything other than an old white man, the red states are no longer safe for you.
I basically refuse to go to most of those states if I can help it. Florida? You couldn’t pay me to set foot in that state. I feel they same about Texas and many others.
I want conservatism to thrive. It does have a place in a healthy political system. But, my friends, the conservatives are the moderate Dems now. I don’t know what else to call the Republicans, other than fascists or cult members. It is a sickness that any person in their right mind should run as fast as they can from.
The truly upsetting part about this is that there are people that are desperate to leave those fascist states, that can’t for a variety of reasons outside their control. I wish things were different. This is just insanity.
Conservative terrorism is out control. It breaks out specifically across racial and socioeconomic lines.
Moderates and liberals are trying to protect themselves, while conservatives are hell-bent on tearing everyone down.
My hope is that these are the death throes of the Republican party. A loud gasp for air before the party croaks and shatters.
An important point, liberals are moderates. Or rather, centrists.
That’s why I no longer call myself a liberal. Socialist as fuck, baby!
Damn right
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Not OP, but I live in a strongly Democratic state/district, so I know I can vote my conscience. If NYC doesn’t go blue, we have bigger problems than who I voted for. (I’ll probably write in Chuck Tingle, honestly.)
Does voting third party change anything right now? No. So you vote for the least evil option because that’s the best hope you have at present. Would I love for there to be a viable socialist candidate? Sure. Would I vote for one if that option made it more likely for Trump to get elected? Absolutely not.
Voting should be pragmatic.
Is there anything that will actually help make things good rather than just “less terrible than the alternative I guess”? ~Strawberry
Is the democratic socialist?
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Correct, they do in fact do those things. What were you trying to say?
How is it projection when that is exactly what they are doing?
How many more dead kids do you need to see before taking action on conservative terrorism and white terrorism?
How many liberals were taking pop shots at power transfer stations?
How many libtards were taking pop shots at congressmen? How many blew up congress with a bomb… Oh did you forget about that or did the talking head not tell you.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-terrorism-data/
The overwhelming majority of domestic terrorism is right wing.
Cited like a true libtard from a hard left newspaper. Do some research genius. When you have a left wing nut job the story gets dropped from the news rather quickly. Maybe because it makes their side look like assholes.
I dunno about you but I definitely take someone seriously when they start a demonstrably false statement with libtard.
Spoken like a true soyboy. Go tell everyone how men can get pregnant, how you’re not a biologist so you can’t deine what a women is, and make sure you get some good video of your wife cucking you. For people with mental damage like yours there is no help. You have your head so far up your ass it will never see the light of day. I love how self righteous you are when every non-libtard laughs at you daily.
When did the Washington Post become “hard left?” I missed that one. Especially when it’s owned by an ultra-capitalist. Or are you going to claim Jeff Bezos is a socialist?
Are you really trying to say Bezos isn’t another lefty? Scroll down prime video and all the woke bullshit they stream now. If you’re that far off of reality I’m not wasting my time.
Oh honey….It’s cute that you think a newspaper owned by Jeff Bezos is hard left. Read Jacobin sometime, your head might explode. It’s funny when I remember that the “hard left” the right thinks they’re battling are milquetoast liberals who think maybe we shouldn’t actively harm historically marginalized groups anymore. I bet you think Joe Biden’s a commie, too, don’t you? Bless your heart…You’ve probably never even met a real leftist.
Wapo isn’t hard left, lol… not even remotely close
January 6 happened but okay.
And next you’re going to tell me it was than 9/11 and pearl harbor right?
These people are crazy. This community, I thought would be a real political community …. But it’s just full of r/politics refugees
Same idiocy going on here that was going on at reddit
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You’re confused, you don’t even know what a ‘hate group’ is.
You think Christianity is a ‘hate group’
When you watch the ideas and policies that self-proclaimed Christians are promoting, it’s easy to get confused.
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And this is why everyone ignores you people and your over-dramatic use of terms like ‘hate group’
Terms like ‘hate group’ ‘fascist’ ‘Nazi’ are not hyperbolic terms, they are very specific terms with very specific meanings. They are not to be used the way you’re using them.
I understand that liberals feel like definitions of words should be ‘fluid’ and depending on ‘how you feel’ the word should mean when you use it, but that’s just not how communication works.
You don’t know what a hate group even is, obviously.
You can call anything a hate group if you want, but if it’s not an actual hate group, it just makes you look like you don’t know what you’re talking about
I don’t remember calling anything a “hate group,” but good job ignoring absolutely everything I did say.
It’s not? Sure fooled the rest of the world LMAO.
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If this shit keeps up, give it 3 months, and lemmy world will be dead.
Hence the downvotes. They really are pathetic enough to have to have an echo chamber.
Conservative communities are far worse echo chambers. If you’re not metaphorically sucking Trump’s dick you get banned.
Now you are projecting hard. I got banned from subreddits just for belonging to a pro Trump sub. You can spew your bullshit until you’re blue in the face but everyone knows who the fascists are. The ones that don’t believe anyone but them should have an opinion or be allowed to speak and it isn’t Trump supporters.
I got banned from subreddits just for belonging to a pro Trump sub
Out of curiosity, which one?
Can you define fascism? If not, I strongly suggest starting with Umberto Eco’s essay Ur-Fascism. And if you can, I’d love to hear what you think it consists of.
I got called a ‘biological terrorist’ and automatically banned from r/justice served by those fascists mods.
Never even posted there before, just woke up to a DM informing me
This was when the abortion decision happened with the Supreme Court
Looks like this place is no different from the last place.
This is a POLITICS community not a LIBERAL one
Ok cool
It should be, but it’s not cool. Because the members of this community treat it like a liberal sub, but it’s called “politics”
TBF considering red states want to make my existence illegal and send me to jail for being me(Trans) it does make sense for me to go to a place where I’m not threatened. Pennsylvania is more of a purple state but at least I know they aren’t going to turn on me for some political points.
From a political perspective, moving to purple states (e.g. PA, GA, AZ, NV, NC, WI, MI) makes much more sense than sorting into blue and red states, which would give Republicans disproportionate power at all levels.
These states also have a high cost of living compared to some blue states like NM (Where I moved to from Florida) Besides Florida was a purple state until it was gerrymandered.
Florida is different because so many older, more conservative retirees move to Florida. And they vote. If it wasn’t for that, Florida would probably have been pretty solidly blue at this point.
On the other hand, that has opened up other states for Democrats, e.g. Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Plus it was made the q-anon COVID conspiracy haven. I haven’t seen hard numbers in terms of relocation but I’ve heard tell it’s statistically significant.
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Oklahoma here and am ready to get the fuck out
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I hope Stitt opens people’s eyes a bit. Guy is the sludge at the bottom of a sewer pipe.
Northern Michigan is about to have the same temp as Tennessee in the next decade. Blue states won’t be frigid for much longer and red states are about to swim in the humidity. Still, it varies quite heavily more by terrain than by lat/long.
Thank you for the welcome :). I really hope you are right, but definitely hard to be optimistic.
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I just escape that jail, moved to California, it’s actually shocking how much nicer it is.
There’s a streep aweaper that comes through the neighborhood once a week, so the streets are extremely clean, and like, the roads are actually well maintained. Just from the like, extremely surface level things.
Its not too bad, its just the people and the weather. And the police. And the politics
Transplant now residing in Oklahoma. I wish things would get better. It’s honestly almost an embarrassment to live here.
Funny, I just moved to Oklahoma from Seattle and it’s been a nice change of pace.
But why are all the blue states cold?
My husband and I thought about Arizona, or Virginia to get away from one of the highest CoL areas in the country… but eventually decided to focus on Connecticut instead, because we don’t want to be in a red state. With the exception of CA, none of the liberal states are sunny and all of them are expensive!
Because warm states were better for a slave-based agriculture economy and the liberal/conservative divide (whose relationship to political parties has changed over time) comes, in large part, from cultural differences that emerged before the Civil War.
That’s dark, but it makes sense.
It’s likely also due to the populations living in southern states, another big part of the population in southern states are those who had jobs in the mining industries or people retiring, the biggest things the republicans are pushing are bringing back mining and making sure that people get to keep their money(such as lower taxes) where as democrats are pushing for a cleaner environment(so miners blame them for losing their jobs), and major infrastructure plans that could take a while to pan out(so people retired see that and don’t want higher taxes as they already got their grain and don’t want to pass it on).
This is an over generalization and there is other major factors but these two groups are significant sections that the republicans are appealing to where as democrats aren’t such. Democrats might be able to get big wins if they could campaign on programs to help mine works get new jobs and revitalize the economies in mine towns and maybe some more programs for people that have retired so they feel they are getting more then what they’re putting in.
Because all of the red people are retirement age… 😂
Virginia isn’t really a red state.
It is “blue leaning” but they keep threatening abortion access.
It has a Republican governor and house but the Senate is Democrat. I’m sure Republicans are trying to enact restrictive abortion laws but calling Virginia a red state is inaccurate.
I was seriously considering a move from Nashville to Minneapolis last year, but after a lot of soul searching about it, I realized that the length of winter there would mean giving up most of my favorite hobbies, especially motorcycles, for a substantial portion of the year, and I’m not willing to do that.
Colorado is sunny! The warmest parts are also redder, so I think you’re on to something though.
What are you talking about? Colorado has 300 days of sun a year, mild winters (depending on area. Mountain towns see the snow longer than Denver). Also Eastern WA and Oregon are hot as shit and sunny as well.
Maybe you missed the part about trying to find a lower cost of living area? Unless you go to the highest crime, poorest areas of those states, real estate is insane. We did consider Pueblo, CO, but it’s trumpville and actually more expensive than most parts of CT.
Haha actually wanting to move to the washington area.
I wanted to in 2017 when I first went there, it just changed so much while I was there I really wish I could have bailed a year sooner.
That’s a very alarming sign. Polarization of that caliber means we’re on a hard Stage 6 on the Ten Stages of Genocide, and everything that follows it is… bad. Very, very bad. You do not want to see what happens at Stage 7 and beyond.
Hate to add to this but we have more recently learned that after the fall of the weimar republic the first target was the trans community. The arguments being made today and the actions being taken are arguments against that communities right to exist. Their have already been shootings based purely on the political leanings of the victim even neighbors shooting neighbors.
What shootings? I haven’t heard of any political murders yet
Ill google it for you once. There are more. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kentucky.com/news/nation-world/national/article268513477.html
I mean, I feel like we’re already seeing attempts at Stage 7. I live in California but damn it’s fucking scary being a trans person in America right now.
This is part of the GOP strategy.
Senator Josh Hawley from Missouri has openly acknowledged that the GOP strategy is to make it so miserable for Democrats in red and purple states that they will move to blue states. That would, in turn, cement Republican power in the White House, Senate and thereby the Supreme Court.
It won’t work for long, since they’re making people so poor they can’t afford to move.
Well their goal is to make them too poor to vote as well
And you don’t even have to be poor. We live in Indiana. Our house is worth far less than any blue state houses. We couldn’t afford to buy a house in a blue state. I hate it here, but I’m here to stay until the housing market collapses.
High COL also means high income. You are expressing a sunk cost fallacy.
High income if you have a job lined up already. Having been jobless in California, I don’t wish to repeat that.
Agree, Definitely recommend having job lined up before any major change like that.
Or just be willing to hustle? Being young helps too.
I got the job before heading to SF. But another friend of mine in tech sold everything he owned in Ohio, and rented a room in a house for like 800/month and lived with 4 other dudes in a huge house in the inner Richmond. Got by on app hustles until he found a gig coding.
He’s back in Ohio now bc he decided to breed and be closer to family because of it. But he had a solid couple of years more in SF than I did. I kind of regret not just going for it sooner like he did.
Wages haven’t kept up with increases in CoL for years, and the pandemic skyrocketed the latter while barely budging the former.
For real. I live in Texas currently. If I could afford it, I would move tomorrow. This place is Hell, in every sense.
Me too. I’m a clinical social worker here, and so many of my LGBTQ+ patients have been struggling with suicidal ideation with the politics here, especially with the most recent legislative session. I’m gonna stay here as long as possible and vote in every fucking election possible. Lately I’ve even been voting in the Republican primaries against the extremist candidates. It’s so sad, because it wasn’t this bad here when I was growing up in the 90s. We even had a Dem governor.
LGBTQ+ patients have been struggling with suicidal ideation with the politics here
This is exactly what Abbott wants. Makes me want to plant more trees.
How “Christian” of him, eh? It’s disgusting. We are human souls who deserve safety and to not live in fear. I have hope that many Gen Z Texans feel disgusted as well, won’t move, and can turn Texas blue. Once more and more are able to vote, we can transform this state. Maybe that is too idealistic, but it keeps me sane while I am unable to move.
Right? I’m also in Texas because Uncle Sam sent me there. The moment my contract is up, I’m fucking OUT of here.
Wish I hadn’t changed my state of record to be Texas, but that just means I’ll keep voting there until I can bounce. Right now I’m mad favoring Allred to unseat Cruz in 2024.
This is only a viable strategy as long as the electoral college exists.
It’s not going away.
This argument needs to die. The EC is never going away, so stop pinning various strategies and hopes on it somehow magically disappearing. If people spent 1/2 as much time on actually voting and campaigning for center and left candidates as they do complaining about the EC, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in today.
I have worked on campaigns and studied politics for years. With the EC, the current SCOTUS, and the voter suppression and gerrymandering tactics of the last few decades , there is no reasonable long-term path to left, or even center, power. People are allowed to complain. People have been organizing, for years. Nothing has worked, and basic human rights are now being violated in ways and for groups that they hadn’t been before. You’re right that with our current governmental structure, the EC isn’t going anywhere. But democracy’s not about elections alone; it’s about the consent of the governed. A whole lot of us don’t consent, and I don’t think the current institutional infrastructure’s going to survive the blast when that pressure gets too high. And if anything (other than a Constitutional Convention based on the same principles as the EC) happens to the current arrangement, the EC goes too. No one in an underrepresented state would willingly accept those conditions.
HALF the population can’t be bothered to vote in most elections. The country is being dragged to the Right and has been for years now and election after election a massive percent of the population doesn’t seem it is worth going out to the polls. In presidential elections it is higher, but still - there are a LOT and I mean a LOT of elections that could have swung the other way if only a few hundred more people got off their butts and voted. We could have gotten rid of that blowhard Lauren Boebart (however it is spelled) last cycle. She won by only a few hundred votes in an election where less than 60% of the population of that district voted. Apparently Colorado is a mail-in state, so these people didn’t even have to go drive anywhere.
The situation is even worse if you look at demographics. No one had more to lose than the youth of this country and their voting numbers are pitiful. What’s worse is that they have the numbers to change elections. They are a massive group that at this point in time have more people than the dreaded Boomers. Yet their numbers are abysmal.
So when I hear about people complaining about the EC or gerrymandering or a host of other roadblocked set up by the Right for them to get their way on election day, I just think back that these are mostly just excuses. I am not saying that gerrymandering isn’t real - it absolutely is - but even some of the most gerrymandered districts could swing the other way if enough people voted.
If you’re overwhelmed by the enormity of the threat the right poses, and you see structural change is impossible, I sympathize. But blaming people who are struggling for not doing something they see as unlikely to produce positive change and that the state is simultaneously actively making it hard for them to do isn’t helpful. I’ve been politically involved since 2000 (academic study, campaign volunteering/work); Barring major disaster, I’m not seeing voter numbers going up from here significantly without legistative changes. You can yell at clouds all you want, but that’s not the point of leverage you’re looking for.
Making everyone a victim who is on some pre-determined path and they have no control over the things that happen to them is exactly the nonsense that I see the youth are falling for. I see posts by Zoomers all the time that essentially boil down to “we’re screwed, so fuck it” or “I give up” or some such. That’s not the America that I grew up in and I refuse to buy into this idea that change is impossible. Americans need “tough love” - coddling them in this idea of “IF ONLY so-and-so was different” then we could fix the environment/housing crisis/healthcare. Be the change you want to be. Expecting that it will simply be handled to you leads to this apathy and tuning-out that far too many Americans already fall into.
I don’t think you understand. No one in my position thinks things will he handed to/handled for us. (Your word choice is unclear.). I think we’re on the Titanic and we’ve struck the iceberg, we just haven’t done the horrible dying in the North Atlantic part. And if I wanted boomers who’ve probably studied our political structure less closely, spent less time doing actual campaign work, and seen less of the way things work than I have, telling me I’m entitled, I’d have asked one of those guys who likes talking about millennials like we’re children whose biggest problem is not laying off the avocado toast. “Kids today are weak, entitled whiners playing the victim card, and I know better because I’m older” may pass for discourse some places, but not here.
Ok. I think people’s actual lives are more important than a 250-year-old document that can’t differentiate between a flint-lock pistol and a machine gun. Don’t you?
Had to scroll too far to find this! I also read that it was totally about strategy in those purple or starting to lean purple states as more young people lean liberal, and the older, evangelical crowd is not being replaced enough with young people to keep a good footing for the Republicans. If the liberal people leave, the states turn solid red, and then they don’t need new people so much to keep power.
Of course no one wants to live in a place that is contrary to their beliefs so you can’t blame anyone for moving somewhere else… but the implications of that are scary for the country as a whole.
Yeah, but the strategy’s multi-pronged, so even if you stay and suffer for your suffrage, they can find new reasons to prevent you from voting/discount your ballot. And then you’ve put your life and happiness in jeopardy for nothing. Not a great recruitment pitch for the Stay Put Brigade.
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I love living in L.A. because while we do have our right-wingers, seeing a Trump flag even in my semi-conservative pocket of the city is rare.
I’d say it’s a valid strategy, abhorrent though. Because of the rural bias in GOP there will naturally be more counties, states etc that run gop if Dems move to denser blue areas.
Tbh, I prefer to live in a purple state.
I am in a battleground state, in a pretty rural area, filled with a decent amount diversity, including trump crazies.
I feel I’m doing more good here than living in the city.
I like to get down and dirty, pushing.
(Tbf I am a straight white male, so I can totally see getting out of dodge if that wasn’t the case)
I totally respect the stay-and-fight position. Godspeed.
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I don’t think so, I think this is actually disastrous for Republicans. You have a number of trends and statistics reducing their voter count and appeal in battleground states. Consolidating their base in safe red states hurts them even further here, and some of the people they drive away are going to settle in swing states instead.
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This also isn’t accurate. There are bright blue cores of red states like Austin in Texas. I doubt that the wealthier republicans are moving to a trailer park in Alabama.
It isn’t smart from a strategic political position, but it’s probably smart from a personal position. Hopefully eventually the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact goes into effect and we don’t have to worry about crap like this.
Even with NPVIC the Senate is going to Senate.
That’s true. That requires something else. It makes the existence of red states less of an issue, though still somewhat of an issue.
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The problem comes when conservatives see the rainbow flag (or any of the other numerous pride flags) as a direct attack on their religion. I grew up in a very conservative area of a very red state, and I can tell you from personal experience that an attack on their religion will feel like a personal attack against them. They might be flying the thin blue line flag as a “fuck your feelings” flag, but it’s likely because they see any pride flag as a “fuck your religion” flag.
This really stems from the larger issue of tying religion and politics together; now they can view any challenges to their political views as a challenge to their religious views. One thing Christianity is very good at is building a victim complex and that Jesus/ the church is the most important thing in this life or the next, and that preconditions their followers to believe that they will have to dig in harder in the face of adversity.
I think the real key is to make everyone realize that freedom of religious is the same as freedom from religion as well. Once we can all get on the same page that making something legal and available (like women’s healthcare) is not the same as a government endorsement and still allows people to not use the service. Getting over that hurdle might take away a huge arm of the right-wing propaganda machine (allowing priests and ministers to give political messages from the pulpit) and might help the wheels of government to turn a little smoother.
Conservatives will breathlessly tell you that we’re a christian nation and that they dont want separation of church and state. They actively want yallqueda. They don’t care about facts, logic, or moral consistency, and they will kill you dead rather than change their viewpoint the slightest bit.
Yep, so reasoning with them is, and always will be, a trap. You have to legislate against them
No shit. NEVER living in a red state
If I could relocate to a state where my views aren’t swamped by the overwhelming redness of the state, I would in an instant, but sadly it’s not in the cards until retirement.
Yeah… living in a deep red state goes against every bit of my moral fiber. But I can’t leave. I can only sit here, helplessly trying my best to vote for equal rights but then I see people are voting for red no matter what is at stake. The party system is trash and it needs to be gone.
Your comment fits me perfectly. Listening to my coworkers discuss the most garbage vitriol and bullshit mental gymnastics to justify they’re beliefs while trying to shoehorn them into their religion. Good times
Important data to understand, there are fewer blue states than red states. These actions allow for Republicans to gain far more power in Government as the states elect the President and Congress. Democrats are essentially giving Republicans full control of the Federal Government which will be used to erode all progressive laws in blue states.
I’d care a lot more about that if I didn’t think the right would try to take power either way, by force if chicanery fails. Why sacrifice your family’s life for a pipe dream when you can shore up blue areas in case we need to secede instead? Your life will be better short-term, and the only way it won’t be better long term is if the fascism you’d have had to fight anyway wins.
The only reason some states are red is due to gerrymandering. Blue voters outnumber red voters by a large margin.
This depends on how you define red and blue. If it’s who the state voted for president, then gerrymandering doesn’t impact that
That is true.
