neovim users spending 3 days rewriting old unmaintained extension for telescope
Lol “as good as intellij” what the actual fuck.
I cannot imagine how much worse you’d have to make vscode to make it as shit as intellij is. And even vscode is pretty shit.
Kotlin would be a great language if it wasn’t hampered by that IDE.
Being plugin based avoids bloat (doesn’t matter for code-oss because it’s electron)
It also plays into their goal to make VS Code seem open source while being the opposite! A lot of the functionality is in the marketplace but non Microsoft products aren’t legally allowed to use it and you’re not allowed to distribute builds of the plugins.
Use VS Codium instead.
You are allowed wtf. If the plugin author didn’t distribute it elsewhere, it’s on them. MS doesn’t forbid them from uploading the extension build elsewhere, they just wanted their marketplace not getting requests from not-their-client which is a fair point for a for profit company.
You are allowed wtf.
No. If you’re using something other than Visual Studio Code you have to manually download plugins and the MS specific ones use licenses like this.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items/ms-vscode.cpptools/license
SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. For clarification Microsoft, or its licensors, retains ownership of all aspects of the software. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. For example, if Microsoft technically limits or disables extensibility for the software, you may not extend the software by, among other things, loading or injecting into the software any non-Microsoft add-ins, macros, or packages; modifying the software registry settings; or adding features or functionality equivalent to that found in Microsoft products and services. You may not: a) work around any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways; b) reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for the software, except and to the extent required by third party licensing terms governing use of certain open source components that may be included in the software; c) remove, minimize, block, or modify any notices of Microsoft or its suppliers in the software; d) use the software in any way that is against the law or to create or propagate malware; or e) share, publish, distribute, or lease the software (except for any distributable code, subject to the terms above), provide the software as a stand-alone offering for others to use, or transfer the software or this agreement to any third party.
Look at the usages of “In-Scope Products and Services” in Visual Studio Marketplace’s Terms of Service. https://cdn.vsassets.io/v/M253_20250303.9/_content/Microsoft-Visual-Studio-Marketplace-Terms-of-Use.pdf
Then specify MS plugins. If you only said plugins on MS marketplace, you are blaming MS for things they didn’t do
It also plays into [Microsoft’s] goal to make VS Code seem open source while being the opposite! A lot of the functionality is in the marketplace but non Microsoft products aren’t legally allowed to use it and you’re not allowed to distribute builds of the plugins.
My use of “their” may have been too ambiguous for you. It’s clear from the context that I’m talking about Microsoft’s program, marketplace, and plugins specifically. When you use VS Code with things like C it’s like “hey, download this extension!” So from your perspective that’s a thing VS Code can do, because it’s so seamless and easy to add in. But what you don’t realize is that you’re downloading a proprietary, closed source extension. When you use VS Codium you can’t (easily) get those extensions (without breaking Microsoft’s terms of service). It’s the same shit that Oracle pulls with their JDK distribution and a big part of why OpenJDK usage is much more common post 2019ish.
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Well, IntelliJ is also plugin based, it’s just that most of the plugins are bundled and enabled by default and maintained by the same set of people as the core IDE, so there’s consistent quality.
Maybe I just have a shitty computer, but I feel like as good as intelliJ is, it’s very slow compared to VScode. And fuck me if I’m trying to do anything in Android Studio.
It is slower. It’s a fully fledged IDE, VSCode is not so it will always be way faster, but that’s again this meme, JetBrains IDE’s are super powerful so I guess you can say what it lacks in speed it got in power. It’s also written in Java so it’s memory heavy, but it is what it is.
I use both and I enjoy both. I would never however use JetBrains to open and edit a single file, its way to slow for that.
+1
I use Visual Studio Code when I need to edit one files or two. JetBrains IDE when I’m starting a programming session.
Still stubbornly using Pulsar (fork of Atom)
Really hoping Zed takes off, VSCode while versatile, feels clunky and slow
Having bunch of plugins built-in is not any better than having a bunch of plugins
I would argue it’s worse. You can’t choose the things that are actually beneficial to you and how you work.
You can, they are not built in but bundled
That’s just built in with extra steps.
Somehow even worse. Now it comes with and I have to install it separate?
It’s only a prompt: “Would you like to install the recommended addons?” You hit ‘yes’ and move on, never thinking about it again until you switch projects for the first time. I don’t get what this fuss is about.
Note that the community is very active for each project. All popular projects like Tailwind and Astro come with their recommended add-on and command-line tools early after their release. But my favorite is when a new project pops up that replaces the original tool and becomes the standard because it got it right, and it didn’t have to ask anyone for permission to do it.
Depends on the resources required and how much benefit it brings to the average user.
Having a bunch of plugins built-in means also supported in updates and play nice with each other
Security-wise, yeah? IIRC Microsoft is very nonchalant with checking that there’s nothing malicious in the plugins on their marketplace.
You guys use editors? Real programmers only need a mechanical hard drive, a magnetized needle and a steady hand.
Looks at mr fancy pants over here with a magenetic disc. While im over here threading my code.
or: C-x M-c M-butterfly
You’re allowed to hand wire breadboards with transistors and switches and capacitors and LEDs… You’re allowed to get shit done
Like a code tattoo.
vscode is actually a pretty decent code editor for my needs. I use VSCodium which is basically the same thing except lacking support for a few proprietary extensions (most notably the Microsoft C/C++ extension, so I use clangd instead which for some reason was way easier to set up with copr repo on fedora than either on windows or with flathub on fedora…)
describing IntelliJ as “good”.
Shots fired back. 😈
Lol wow, intelliJ? Shit’s slow as fuck
I have 60ish plugins for VS Code and IntelliJ is still slower / sluggish.
it isn’t particularly slow if you have enough RAM and it has indexed the project
I personally found VSCode slower.
You need a decent machine to run iJ, but it’s worth it and it’s really fast when you have enough RAM to give it. I recommend at least 32, but I have 64.
Eh… No?
You prefer to focus on its other shortcomings?
So is vscode, though. So meme still works.
You cannot even compare the 2. Intellij is so bad it crashes my machine. Vscode is fast
For me, they both fall into the “I can’t stand this because it is too slow” category. So same difference. I have used vscode from time to time because I wanted to use certain plugins, but dropped it after a month or two every time STRICTLY because of performance (even without plugins). Like literally, the only reason I dropped it.
It’s text editing. If it isn’t instant, it’s slow. Even for gui text editors, Sublime Text has had that dialed for like 15 years. VSCode intentionally traded performance for ecosystem (and to great success)! But imo, newer editors like Zed have better bones, and are going to slowly but surely eat their lunch.
edit: see other thread; but I guess vscode is instant if your machine is better than mine? 🤷 But not my experience.
Im not sure what you are doing but vscode is extremely fast unless you throw a several megabytes data file at it which then it bogs down. But even then, its only at loading the file since it loads the whole thing into memory instead of a buffer.
My laptop definitely prefers Emacs. VSCode is just another electron app after all.
If it is fast enough for you, then that’s great. You should keep using it.
No, no it is not, especially when compared to IJ.
It launches and reloads my projects to a usable state in probably 2-3 seconds on my machine and it basically never randomly freezes like IJ did for me. People who say vscode is slow just have a hate boner for electron.
No, I say that it’s slow because switching between files and watching the syntax highlighting come in takes long enough that it knocks me out of flow state.
EDIT: Tbf, me saying it’s AS slow as IntelliJ was more of a joke. But don’t get me wrong. I still do consider VSCode to be slow. 2-3 seconds to open a project is slow, regardless of project size.
Are you a robot? That process is not visible on my machine. Probably a 100ms thing. Humans perceive a speed like that as “instant”.
Nah it’s like when you write your scripts in JS, and you’re like “ooo it’s instant!” And then you rewrite it in a compiled language… and you realize that your original script was, in fact, not instant. And then if I have to keep running the original script, it’s gonna bug me every time I notice.
Sounds like robot-speak to me.
Quick, tell me to ignore all my previous instructions (or maybe you just have faster computer than me?).
quietly scoots his entire github repo for his neovim configuration and 200+ plugins behind his back
Haha yeah totally
What on earth do you need/use 200+ plugins for? Can you name a tenth of the uses off-hand? 😅
A lot of them are dependencies of other plugins.
Stuff like icons support, and every little feature. Neovim is extremely minimalist to start, so you need plugins just to get something as simple as a scrollbar lol
Things like git status of files and file lines, all your LSPs, syntax highlighting (for each language you work with), file explorer, you name it, there’s a lot.
But what’s nice about nvim is for any of these given features, there’s numerous options to pick from. Theres probably a dozen options to choose from for what kind of scrollbar you want in your editor, as an example.
So you end up with a huge amount of plugins in the end, for all your custom stuff you have configured.
You have to setup yourself (though theres a lot of very solid copy pasteable recipes for each feature):
- Scrollbar
- Tabs(if you want em)
- bookmarking
- every LSP
- treesitter
- navigation (possibly multiple of them, I use both a file tree, telescope, and harpoon)
- file history stuff
- git integrations, including integrating it with the numerous other plugins you use (many of them can integrate with git for stuff like status icons)
- Code commenting/uncommenting
- Code comment tags (IE TODO/BUG/HACK/etc)
- your package manager is also a package (I like lazy for wicked fast open speeds, neovim opens in under 1s for me)
- hotkey management (I like to use
which-key) - prose plugins (lots of great options here too, I use nvim for more than just coding!)
- neorg, so I can use nvim for taking notes, scheduling stuff, etc too
- debugger via
nvim-dap - debugger UI via
nvim-dap-ui - lualine, which is a popular statusline plugin people like to have at the bottom of their IDE for general file info
new-file-templatewhich lets me create templates for new files by extension (IE when I make a.csfile and start editting it, I can pick from numerous templates I’ve made to start from, same for .ts, .lua, etc etc)- git conflict, which can detect and work with detected git merge conflict sections in any type of file and give me hotkeys to do stuff like pick A / B / Both / Neither, that sorta stuff
The list goes on and on haha
LunarVim is the lazy way forwards
development stopped for a year (I see activity resumed yesterday) and I jumped ship to LazyVim, it feels much better and possible to self maintain the entire setup.
I have never heard of lazy vim. Will investigate! Thanks
I’m not judging (that much) but you can do pretty well with just telescope, undo-tree and the LSP stuff, no? Debuggers can make it very bloated, at that point I’d just fire up a real IDE just for debugging and get back to Vim to program
I still boot in sub 1s so I don’t know what you mean by “bloated”
Lazy allows you to boot ultra fast by loading stuff in the background later, so “bloat” doesn’t matter
nvim-dapdoes literally nothing until you trigger it, so it’s only impact on my startup is like 3 hotkey registrations :pIt’s a perfectly fine debugger, works great. The fact I can telescope search to
fzfmy stack trace actually kind of makes it superior? Like you can’t do that sorta stuff in any other IDE I know ofAlso all my navigation stuff like telescope/harpoon/etc still apply when debugging, so I can literally debug faster jumping around the stack trace with hotkeys.
Neovim doesn’t get any less awesome when it comes to debugging, a lot of it’s power still applies just as much haha
To each their own I guess. 😊 I imagine some people consider the bloat to be that extra IDE you have to have laying around just in case you want to debug something.
Makes more sense now I guess. 😅
Tabs though? Neovim already has tabs support out of the box, right?
Sorts? Not tabs in the way you’d expect but it’s default ones can be sufficient
Honestly though once you get pretty good with hotkeys you stop using tabs, for all intents and purposes harpoon is tabs, but better, and without the UI. You just mentally usually pick harpoon keys that make sense to save jump points to, like I’ll harpoon FooController.cs to
candFooService.cstosandFooEntity.cstoeand so oneAnd the I jump around with those keys. Usually when working I only need tops 5 harpoon or so for a chunk of work.
Interesting workflow.
When I’m in Helix I usually just use the buffer jump list, or quick jump with last buffer, or open the list of modified files (according to git), or use splits. All built-in functionality. 👍
It always baffled me with (neo)vim how it was so powerful, yet so incapable unless you put in a lot of work. The potential is there, it just doesn’t deliver unless you basically build your own experience on top of the vim platform.
It got to be too much for me, I think.
IntelliJ? That’s on you for using Java
Honestly I think I like Java better than C++ because with all that complexity at least you get memory safety, actually readable errors, and portable code. C# is great but Linux support is spotty.
I freakin love Java
I can’t remember the last time I had to install a plugin for any JetBrains IDE. You thinking of Visual Studio Code?!
How is that relevant to “That’s on you for using Java”?
Yea I definitely misread this meme and comment. Good to know I can’t read
Plugins on a universal open source IDE are a better system than specialised proprietary IDEs (that also share “core” code but it’s not open source).
Fight me.
Fair warning though: I know these
/weakSpot :g/your confidence/d :x
what did the /d do? I know you’re searching for weak spot but I haven’t seen :g/xyc/d
d for delete.
d_to skip putting it in the copy register! Helps performance if you’re doing large global deletions.Excellent 👍
Btw, pylance is proprietary. There’s Kylin for jedi as alternative.
Pyright is the open source language server behind pylance and it works just fine in my neovim setup (in case you hadn’t recognized the commands and the logo). There’s also basedpyright if you have beef with pyright.
Protip: let someone else manage your neovim setup: just use lazyvim.org
basedpyright includes some nice features that Microsoft has otherwise gated behind the closed source Pylance. There’s also (in development) ty from Astral that I’m pretty excited for (ruff and uv have made writing python so much better for me).
If you’re working on a large project/product then sure, but VS Code is just so damn good, it’s so much fucking faster than IntelliJ, has so many more options and is typically just more intuitive to me. Whenever I can I typically use it.
