• milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
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    2 hours ago

    https://xkcd.com/1425

    Alt text: In the 60s, Marvin Minsky assigned a couple of undergrads to spend the summer programming a computer to use a camera to identify objects in a scene. He figured they’d have the problem solved by the end of the summer. Half a century later, we’re still working on it.


    Edit: seems I’m the third person to comment this! :')

  • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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    60 minutes ago

    Only in 3D. In 2D, you slap some pixels on top and there’s your scarf:

    • Charzard4261@programming.dev
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      11 minutes ago

      I tend to find it’s the other way around. Once you’ve got a scarf modelled and rigged, it’ll work* for all animations, but for animated 2D sprites you have a lot more things to do.

      * May have visual artifacts like clipping

  • LillyPip@lemmy.ca
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    9 hours ago

    There’s already a codebase for bursting from the ground in an explosion of lava. Everyone wants that.

    You’re the first person asking for a scarf, and our system doesn’t even know what a neck is.

  • tiredofsametab@fedia.io
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    9 hours ago

    Player? Easy. Scarf? Easy. Wearing a scarf? That depends on a lot of factors such as which part of the body, how the models were made and rigged, etc.

    • Baggie@lemmy.zip
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      2 hours ago

      And if it like blows in the wind that’s a whole jigglebone system and wind simulation that’s a lot of stuff going on

  • Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.world
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    14 hours ago

    Way back in the 90s I did a contract job at MS Research on a project called “V-Worlds” - a world simulator similar to the Doom or Quake engine, but it was browser-based and everything was a script, so changing how the world worked didn’t mean you had to restart a server, just change the scripts and new stuff would appear right in front of you.

    Anyway the concept of adding accessories to the player’s avatar and even having a pet follow you around came up, and I remember there was an involved discussion of how difficult/impossible that would be. The player’s avatar was a special object class that represented a user, and didn’t have the same capabilities as ordinary objects in the world. I remember asking, “Why isn’t the avatar just a world object the player happens to control? Then you could do all kinds of cool stuff like let the player transform into something else just by switching objects, or let another player run your character.” Dead silence. I was just a contractor, what did I know?

      • Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        I wouldn’t mind seeing that! After V-Worlds was declared “completed” MSR tried to find a product group to fold it into, but nobody wanted to own it. I don’t remember if XBox existed then, but the code just sat there for a few years, then I heard they opensourced it. When my kids were playing ToonTown I found a bug that let you slide behind the background and move around, like you could see that a clerk behind a counter was just a legless floating torso. The method of getting there seemed to be exactly like a V-Worlds bug, so I wondered if Disney might have been using the code. But it could have just been a common graphics bug, I dunno.

        I remember finding another bug while creating a demo with a snaky sea creature swimming around. To animate a multi-segmented object you had to animate each segment separately. After the animation ran for a minute or two, enough unrelated interrupts would happen in the computer that would throw the body parts out of sync, making body parts either merge into each other or move apart, and the whole thing would look like crap. Same thing if you had somebody ride in a car or on a train - the car and character were animated separately and you’d end up with the character floating along behind the car.

        I asked the dev about making the animation itself an abstract object whose position would be moved around, and attaching in-world objects to it, with position offsets. Each animation step would be computed just once instead of for each body part (or for the person and the car), and all the parts would be rendered with offsets from that one position, guaranteeing them to stay in sync visually. He said yeah that’s a good idea, but we’re not working on that code anymore. Oh well.

        Another bug involved moving from room to room. The engine only loaded graphics for the current room, so when you went through a doorway it would load the new room and dump the previous one, causing a very unnatural visual delay that looked like a glitch in the matrix. The way we coped with this was by putting an entire world in a single room, so all the world’s graphics were loaded all at once. But this not only limited the world size, it meant we had to create our own version of the room system in script. To keep track of where players and objects were, we put invisible barriers in doorways and used event handlers when things passed through them. Then we used this to enforce which players could talk to each other or hear sounds made in a given “room”.

        I suggested loading a cluster of rooms at once - the current one and those that were one connection away. Then when an avatar passed into a doorway the new room’s graphics would already be there, no glitch, and the graphics for nearby rooms could be loaded and unloaded in the background. Again, nice idea but we’re done working on that code. Sigh. I really wish I had joined that project about 6 months sooner. Not like I’m a genius or anything but these seemed like really fundamental things that should have been addressed up front.

        Okay, rant over. I haven’t thought about this stuff in quite a while - I’m kind of amazed so many details are still in my head. I must have agonized over it a lot at the time lol.

  • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
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    17 hours ago

    Game director : we’re gonna add interact-able doors with proper door opening animations for the characters

    The game designers:

    The programmers and artists:

    The producers:

    • propitiouspanda@lemmy.cafe
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      6 hours ago

      Legend of Zelda did it well.

      Honestly, I think a major issue with doors is that they just slow down gameplay.

      It’s like coming across a ladder only every building has one.

    • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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      15 hours ago

      Now we need to decide in the case of collisions if:

      • Doors violently push anyone out of the way, possibly “crushing” them into walls or
      • Force themselves back closed, turning any random NPC / obstacle on the other side into an unbeatable lock or
      • Just trap an unfortunate NPC in a corner on the other side, or
      • If they use the physics system to swing open, in which case they’ll look smooth but possibly bonk the player/actor going through them a few times and could potentially (and comically) insta-kill them if physics is feeling grumpy.

      The frustratingly comedic unintended results of any choice makes for great organic marketing though.

      Gamedev is magical.

      Aside: Know what did this really well though? Resident Evil games after RE:4.

      The ability to “slowly quietly open”, and then at any time decide to violently action-hero kick it open to send a zombie on the other side flying, was genius.

      • Revan343@lemmy.ca
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        12 hours ago

        Have you ever played ATV Offroad Fury on the PS2? When you reached the edge of the map, it would just fling you back towards the center.

        I propose that is how we deal with NPCs blocking doors. With negated fall damage, of course

        • chellomere@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Wow, memory unlocked! Motocross Madness did this too, if you managed to drive up the giant wall surrounding the world. I checked, and it turns out both these games were developed by the same company, Rainbow Studios, so probably they used the same engine.

    • psud@aussie.zone
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      56 minutes ago

      My bg3 character is female. She was in slacks until act 3 where she could finally have a dress

      We looted everything. I feel like there are two dresses in the game: the robe Gale wears and a white dress you find in a Balders Gate house near the end of the game

  • frezik@midwest.social
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    18 hours ago

    Always have to remind myself of this when managers ask me if something could be done. If it’s easy, I naturally get a little annoyed that they’re even asking. But knowing that is my job, not theirs, and it’s good that they ask. There’s lots of places where they assume and things go badly.

  • tetris11@feddit.uk
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    21 hours ago

    Well yeah, we have a character model for the giant demon and the giant demon has a huge use case.

    A scarf? That’s a model extension. Either you’re asking me to create a whole new character with a scarf baked into the mesh that will deform weirdly as the character moves, or you’re asking me to implement an accessory-anchor system all for the sake of a scarf (albeit other accessories might use this new framework) which will then need a physics/cloth sim to even look half good.

    • propitiouspanda@lemmy.cafe
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      5 hours ago

      or you’re asking me to implement an accessory-anchor system all for the sake of a scarf

      It… shouldn’t be that difficult?

      It’s literally adding another piece of gear, like gloves, breastplate, helmet, etc. Now just repeat the process for a scarf.

      • Bimfred@lemmy.world
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        45 minutes ago

        A character model is made up of “slots”. The head slot, the chest slot, the legs slot and so on. When you equip a piece of gear, it replaced the body mesh in that slot. So a helmet model replaces the head, a cuirass replaces the chest, I think you follow. If you want a piece of gear to only partially cover the character, you need to create a new slot. But gear is easy to implement, since it conforms to the character’s “body” and uses the same animations.

        Now add a scarf. First, you need to create a new slot, so that equipping the scarf doesn’t replace the head or chest. And then comes the question of animations. Are you going to have the scarf just lay flat against the character? That’s the easiest approach, but it’ll be completely static, look like ass and probably clip through at least some of your armors. You could use a cloth sim. If your scarf mesh has enough polygons, it’ll look the best. But it’s also computationally expensive, especially if you go with mesh-based collisions for maximum eye candy. And what types of objects can the scarf collide with? Just the character, or world objects as well? Every object the scarf collides with will create a whole new slew of physics calculations, all the time, dropping your performance in the gutter like a mob snitch. Or you could create a bespoke rig for the scarf. It’ll look better than a static object and won’t have a notable performance hit, but won’t look as good as the cloth sim, especially since it won’t collide properly with whatever else your character is wearing. And you’d need to create matching animations for literally every animation the character can possibly do. Every. Single. One. Your animators would want to murder you. And they will, when you come back to them a little later and say “Okay, real impressed with the scarf, now let’s make 5 different ones. And I want capes.”

        TL;DR: It’s not just another piece of gear.

    • Natanael@infosec.pub
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      18 hours ago

      You could import fabric physics and just have it lie there, but that’s going to be a bigger hit on performance than you possibly can imagine and it will move weirdly (in large part becomes we’re not modeling wind, just fabric in a vacuum) and the model features it will lie on top of won’t deform accurately from the simulated weight, etc…

    • HubertManne@piefed.social
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      16 hours ago

      my thoughts. system has to be made for costuming from the get go and you bring in a wierd new character race and everything breaks for them.

  • Destide@feddit.uk
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    15 hours ago

    Shadows in the real world a lack of energy Shadows in games imma need it all boss

    • Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      16 hours ago

      As a gameplay programmer, I got anxiety from reading this (and I think the animators are already in a fetal position on the floor)

      • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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        16 hours ago

        Can’t you just swap x for -x. Run some unit tests just in case. We’ll push to prod next Wednesday. Sound good? Got to dash, strategy meeting started 5 minutes ago. Seeyoubye.

        • BradleyUffner@lemmy.world
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          15 hours ago

          As a programmer, I’ve learned to cringe at any suggestion from someone that starts with “can’t you just”. Cause I guarantee you, I can’t “just” do that. It’s way more complicated than just.

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          16 hours ago

          The location that the player is visually interacting with would be different, but the world wouldn’t know that. Eg. in a cutscene, the player reaches out and touches a button on a control panel. If the player’s X is flipped, their left hand will be further left than their right hand, and will miss the button visually as they go to press it. Asymmetrical animations might also be fucked, ie. sidestep/jump right normally extends the left leg for leverage, but now their right leg would push off visually and they would still move right.

          • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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            14 hours ago

            I don’t want you to come to me with problems. I want you to come with solutions. I’m going to schedule some action orientated soft skills training for you next month. There is a push to increase our education KPIs so budget is available.

      • MycelialMass@lemmy.world
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        14 hours ago

        Would it be possible to just mirror what the player is seeing so literally everything is backwards? Like a visual effect ‘in-post’? Obviously that would mess with any printed text but other than I cant think of big issue?

        • JordanZ@lemmy.world
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          14 hours ago

          That’s basically what they did for Legend of Zelda:Twilight princess. GameCube version Link was left handed, Wii version he was right handed. Looking at game guide sites was kind of comical. They basically said we’re not rewriting our guide for Wii…just flip the directions. If the guide says go left…go right for Wii.

        • Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          14 hours ago

          You could even do that on the player’s model specifically. But it’s still a maybe, you’re almost guaranteed to get some cursed bugs due to every preexisting code having been made with right handedness in mind.

          I’m sure animators are internally screaming at the reasons why this will make some originally right handed animations look off but that’s not my area of expertise.

          In reality it’s probably not the hardest thing to do gameplay-wise, especially if you’re doing it from the very beginning of the project, but I don’t think you can simply mirror animations (and some animations-related logic) and have it look natural, so you’d have to make dedicated animations and possibly logic for left hand strikes, right hand blocks etc. which would obviously be much more expensive. But yeah that’s probably what Minecraft does now for example, and since they have a very low level of detail on player characters and their animations it looks alright.